Recently we got an opportunity to interview Andreas who is owner of Cymban and who has been developing his own game called Selini. The studio is placed in Greece in the capital city of Athens. Selini draws inspiration from games like Inside and Hollow Knight. This story-rich 2.5D adventure focuses on exploring a mysterious dystopian world filled with enemies. Since there is no text or speech throughout the game, the story is told non-verbally using the environment, atmosphere, gameplay, colors and body language. In addition, it encourages us to think about ecological, social and ethical values, and everything in the game is up to us to interpret for ourselves. Selini has a very simple gameplay, we move left and right, jump over obstacles and shoot at enemies. We will also fight against bosses, and there will be the possibility of upgrading different skills. In addition to fighting enemies, we will also have to revive abandoned machines and use them as a means of transportation and solve various puzzles to progress further. We can expect Selini to be published next year for PC, Steam Deck and Nintendo Switch.
We can expect Selini to be released next year for PC, Steam Deck and Nintendo Switch. We'd like to thank Andreas for talking about his game and revealing many behind-the-scenes secrets to us. Meanwhile, you can take a look at his website, social networks and Kickstarter project. All images and GIFs published in this interview can be found on the official Cymban website.
You’ve been developing your game since 2016. if I’m not mistaken, what’s the story behind your study? How did you come up with an idea to open your own and what inspired you to start developing your own game?
In 2016, when my son was only 5 years old, we were playing a certain game on my cell phone, I don't remember which one, but he asked me a question that seemed simple: "Why do we have to play all these other games, we should make our own video game?” It was a very shocking question for me at that moment, it completely changed my life from the next day. As soon as he fell asleep that day, I immediately went to Google and YouTube to do some simple research on how to make a game. I clicked on the result that said "How to make games for dummies". Although I had some experience in making games, the inspiration to start the whole project came from that little conversation I had with my son in 2016. I didn't even know what I was getting myself into. We didn't have any experience back then, I didn't have any experience, so when you don't know how hard something is, the only limit is the sky. We were very arrogant, I would say, we didn't know so we just went to the limit, we went, as you would say, to the moon.
When you say WE, does that mean you’re developing the game with other people, or is it just mainly you? How many members are there in your team?
When I say WE, I mainly mean me and my son. But honestly, it’s me that’s doing the whole development processes that have to be done. At some point few more people we involved but because it’s a solo project, we’re not getting paid from somewhere, it’s very difficult for people to resist living without any income from such a long-term project. So far, I’m doing the whole development on my own to be honest. Last 2 or 3 years I must mention that I decided to cooperate for minor things on the project with some artists but not something solid, there is no third person, expect my son, but he is not a developer, he is just a main tester and brought many ideas into the game. As a developer it’s only me.
How old is your son?
He is currently 12 years old but, on the way, he brought so many ideas. When we started, he was only 5 and it was just a simple concept, but as he was growing up and me as well was evolving, because you know, the game can last years to make. You’re not the same person when you start compared to now. Even me like 7 years ago I was not the same person. Also, the project evolves, but last year’s we were solid and we’re in the final line to finish this project.
Do you plan to expand your own studio or you’re staying as solo?
I absolutely want to do it. I want to expand the studio because there is this quote: „Alone you can go faster, but together we can go more far way". Maybe not for this project because Selini is pretty much at final stage. Certainly, for my next projects I want to actually create a studio here in Athens with more minds around the projects, for sure.
To add on this question, can you just briefly introduce us to gaming industry in Greece. Is it difficult being a developing studio in Greece?
Greece is European Union country since the beginning but, generally speaking, it’s not very easy country to attempt any sort of business. There is a lot of bureaucracy, a lot of corruption so it’s very difficult for solo developers and generally business to start something. Honestly, we don’t have any support from the state or something really well organized, so developers are pretty much on their own. We tend to seek solutions outside of our country. One of them was Kickstarter campaign that we’re currently running. Generally, it’s a tough country to attempt something.
Since you mentioned the Kickstarted campaign, are you satisfied with how is it going? Is it beyond your expectations?
We managed to get the initial goal within a week. I was definitely happy with that. However, I must point out that it was very hard work to reach that stage because a lot of people might think that on Kickstarter you just upload the project and people start giving you money. In reality, it was very hard work – almost 1 year to build community around this whole thing. It’s just like a full time job you’re doing but you’re not getting paid. I was lucky that I got paid everything just in 1 month after I launched the campaign. However, we have now exceeded our stretch goal and we’re seeking further stretch goals. I’m pretty happy with how things went.
There is also a goal for Nintendo Switch console if you manage to reach the goal for it on Kickstarter, do you plan to release it on other consoles after given some time?
Yes, definitely, as developers we really love, generally and we kind of fantasize to release our games on other consoles. Nintendo Switch was suggested by the poll I ran on the campaign which console the community wants to play Selini first. By far the Switch was the winner. This was predictable. After that, it’s PlayStation then Xbox consoles but I do plan to launch the game on all consoles. However, the Switch must be put on priority as it is very popular this period.
Can you say that social media really helped you for your game to expand and reach that certain public that wants to play Selini?
I think more than 65% of my backers are my friends on the Facebook. Which are not really my friends in real life but are people that gathered around this project during the time. Social media is the main tool for me without any budget to advertise or other means to bring an audience to my campaign. Social media is what brought all these people around the project. Generally, all the love that project is receiving is thanks to the social media and it’s a must I think if you’re a solo developer and want to do things on our own. Certainly, there is a lot of work to be done but all the means are there. The least thing we can do is just to present ourselves to the people who are interested in something we do. Through social media that’s something we can achieve.
When can we expect the release of Selini? You said it should be around 2024, but can we expect the game at the early start of the year or somewhere in the middle? Where does it stand?
I generally kind of keep it open in the campaign, sometime in the 2024. However, the plan is to release the game in the first quarter of the year. You can understand that even though you might be ready and you have everything completed it doesn’t mean that you’re just going to launch your game. Because you must keep an eye on the competition, for example, if Hollow Knight: Silksong is coming out on the same date or the same week, we have to postpone because everybody will be focused on that and they will just completely ignore our project. So, you have to keep an eye on everything that is going on. Also, if we decide that we need couple more months to polish certain elements that can exploit the experiences, it would be wiser to take those months in order to polish the game. I left it kind of open but, let’s say, the goal in my mind is sometimes in the first part of the year.
What’s different about your game compared to other platformers on the market?
This is one of the most difficult questions someone can ask me. Even if I have to apply for the job, when people ask me why I’m so special, I never really answer this. To be honest, at this time I can’t really answer why our game is different because I don’t know about other games, I’m really only focused on Selini, I’m giving my soul to this game. I absolutely trust that audience, the internet can identify quality project that they can rely to it. For me it’s difficult to compare to others. However, technically the way I could separate the game it is that, for example, you take atmospheric 3D world because Selini is 3D game, it’s actually so called 2.5D game because we blocked one of the axis, but it’s completely 3D environment. In this environment we are creating more fashioned Metroidvania gameplay. This brings extra elements in the atmosphere of the game. This could be one of the special elements, but I think it’s the soul that has been put in the game for all these years of development which I hope that users can sense when they can get in touch somehow with the project.
Can you tell us about the protagonist of the game? You wrote somewhere it’s a story about father and son.
This is also a difficult aspect for me because Selini is an exploration game. For me, exploration is not only the levels or the level design of the game. I think the music can be explored, sounds can be explored and for sure the story and the narration of the game can be explored. Since there is no text or speech in the entire game. Everything has to be interpreted by the players themselves. Story is very important part of the exploration which makes it difficult for me to reveal things or provide too much information about the protagonist or about the environment on what’s going on because it’s a big part of the experience itself. You’re invited to give your own story about these things, about what is happening. From playtesting it’s very impressive for me that playtesters give their own interpretation for what they experience by playing the game. It makes perfect sense because each one of them said different things but everything makes sense and works. I have something in mind about what this is all about, but it is very interesting for me to let you there and let you explore on your own. Since the game is developed from me and my son, I cannot hide and it would impossible to not include this relationship somehow in the game. This is only because you see it. In my case, I’m with my son and we see that. But if you don’t have children, for example, if you have pets or another experience or another important thing, somehow you detect that. That’s really amazing, one of the most beautiful, let’s say, elements of the game. Generally, the story, the name and characters are things to be explored and interpreted from the user. This concept can be bold, I was inspired by the game called Inside. This game was biggest inspiration on how to let players free and free to give their own interpretation. We took the world of the Inside and decided to make Metroidvaina exploration game in that world. That’s why, everything is open to interpretation.
Your game has so much to give and to offer, was it you or your son who worked on or came up with its enemies that we can find and fight and all those puzzles that we can find on the way while exploring?
Well, at the beginning I was a little snobbish and skeptical against, you know, enemies and violence. In mind I had an idea of very linear game. Like, you start from point A, you go to point B, just nice things happening in the way, and that’s it. But when my son grew up and he started to explore new games and new genres that I was not really playing. He brought the idea of different exploration, for example, why just go from point A to point B? Why not go to, I don’t know, B and then find something interesting there but you later realize you’re not ready to go further. Instead, you decide to maybe go to point G and find something there that interested you. Afterwards, you come back, but the idea is to just explore around. So, he brought this element in the game, but we realized that we also needed something to keep the player busy during this process because of the backtracking and everything. And then the combat system came in. It was kind of a continuation of the original concept of my son. And he also designs and helps with the enemy design for some areas.
There will be bosses in the game, right? Will the bosses be hard to defeat? Is the game more inclined towards beginners or experienced players?
This is a very tough thing to balance because people can hear the word Metroidvania and they expect, let’s say, certain difficulty. Me, I tend to be of a more of an easygoing when it comes to the progression in the game. Some of the testers that are helping me, they want to make things little more challenging. It’s not completely balanced yet. It’s something to be balanced on the way and it will depend really from the whole game testing and the pacing. It’s impossible to please everyone. You cannot do that. So, it’s a direction that I must really decide and be brave and take on the way. For now, we’re flexible because I can adapt that easily on the way, for example, I can make a decision and make the game a little more difficult, more challenging or I can make it an easy-going experience and focus on just the environments and the beautiful things that you explore on the way. Honestly, I haven’t really decided on that. When you have a boss in the game you still expect a certain challenge. For example, if the boss is too easy, I personally would not really feel the satisfaction from beating that boss. If it’s too difficult for some people, some can find it to be satisfying and for others it can be overwhelming. So, what I want to do is to find a way to implement this to keep as many people provided with access to the experience. You cannot really avoid some bosses to be challenging, but you must give the option – if you’re not ready for that boss yet, just go and explore around, become stronger and maybe it will be easier after. But as you can understand, this is a very challenging process.
You already mentioned game Inside but you also said you got inspired by Hollow Knight, how did you take some aspects of those games and just try to implement them in your own? And what things inspired you the most?
Well, I love the aesthetics of Inside, it’s all minimal. Generally, they don’t have UI, which I also implemented in Selini. They don’t take you by the hands. They don’t tell you all the time what to do, where to go. Ok, it’s a linear game and it works for them. So here comes a big challenge for Selini, because we want to take this element, but we want to teach to the player very complicated mechanisms without speech and without text. This is one of the biggest challenges in the design of the game, but it’s very important to keep that element. The idea is to take the world of Inside and instead of just going linearly, just spend some time in each area and get connected with that area, then go back at the same location when you are ready to experience another element. Me, I’m a solo developer so I don’t have really the luxury to create content. For example, in Inside, they made a huge environment and you just pass through it and you see it for 10 seconds and then it’s over. You never see that place again. As a solo developer, I cannot really afford to have to constantly create content. Instead, I create a world and I find ways to spend more time in that world and get more connected with it. Except for that, there are also few more games that I was really inspired and one of them was Hyper Light Drifter. It’s amazing, the sounds then music, I think it’s really worth checking it out. Their company is called Heart Machine, and there’s also an inspiring story behind them. There’s also another game called Environmental Station Alpha. Few people know about that game but it’s a pixel art title and the way this game actually is, it puts you in its world to tell you where the limits are and just go around and explore. It’s a kind of a similar concept. Also, movies can inspire you or documentaries can inspire you to put elements in a game.
We would like to know more about the map system in the game. How important will be the usage of map system? Will it be easier to get lost while we are playing?
Well, I don’t know about you, but me personally, I love maps, also in real life for some reason. I can spend going around on Google Maps and just watch, just see areas. I love maps. And I also love the roles in Metroidvaina in general. I have to tell, and I have to kind of reveal this because I never mentioned this, but the map of the demo is there as a placeholder, not for you to make it through the demo. The map of the actual game will be different because the whole world of the game is part of the story. Like the map itself tells you something at the end when you complete the entire map. It’s a very, very important aspect and it’s something to be revealed also in the final game – how the map will be completely set up, the navigation and how easy you go through the map. It’s more or less like the demo, let’s say. Generally, I want to keep this minimal approach in everything. Personally, I don’t really like when games tell you exactly what to do, where to go, they kind of ruin it for me. I just want to keep it simple and players to be guided by their own curiosity on where they go and not because I just told them go there and find that and then come back here. Yeah, the map will be a good friend for you to set exploration plans.
How do you find the right soundtrack to fit with the gameplay and the story that you want to introduce to the players?
I do everything by myself but there are certain things that I cannot do, and one of them is music. I’m not a musician. I cannot write music or create music. So, for music, I worked with two guys that were also good friends of mine, and they helped me create the music for the game. After a successful Kickstarter, it is predicted for me to work with, let’s say, more professional musicians that I have already agreed on and I cannot wait to really work with them. But still, as you can understand, music is extremely important for a project like this. For me it’s 60% of the importance for the project because it is more important what you hear in order to feel something what you see. I also had difficulties to really find it. That’s why the demo is completely minimal, and you know there are these calm soundscapes that are not trying to take too much attention from you and I want to keep this also in the full game. I don’t like when one of the elements of the game shout out and say: “Hey, listen to me now! This is music.” I just wanted the whole thing to be one general composition and everything together is the result of what you feel. Music is really important and I will work with the musicians that I love as soon as the campaign is completed.
What made you decide to use Unity instead of Unreal Engine to develop your game?
Well, honestly, back then I had no idea. I didn’t know about game engines. I just checked a few projects that I liked back then and I found out that they were made with Unity. So, I said sure, and it was also my first research on YouTube that showed Unity. That’s why I went with it. If I had to decide today, I think I would still go with Unity for several reasons, one of them is that the games I like the most, they were all made with Unity. I see that Unity is more focused around stylized, more artistic games and generally, Unity is a company based in in Europe, in Copenhagen and I feel it’s kind of closer, where, for example, Unreal is an American company if I’m not mistaken. I think it’s a completely different culture based on photo realism which I’m not really for, it’s not something I seek. I’m just not really attracted too much by photo realism. So, I think even today, I wouldn’t say differently, I would still go with Unity and because of the community. For example, if you start right now, it’s so easy to find tutorials and information on the Internet. I think Unity is very convenient.
Can you talk about the game progression system and how players will be able to get new abilities and upgrades?
The idea is that we want to take it kind of step by step. You don’t really want to overwhelm the player with excessive exploration and go wherever you want right at the beginning because this can make it a little overwhelming for you to start exploring like that. So, the idea is to have, let’s say, limitation up to certain points and then kind of let the player later move around as he feels like. The idea is common as in a lot of Metroidvainas, for example, you just go explore a big part of the map, find obstacles that you cannot really overcome at the moment, but, at some point, you find something like a double jump or maybe something like a dash and say: “Hey, now we can just go back there and see what’s what – I can see beyond that level.” Actually, these are the main gameplay elements that make this game attractive. According to me, the fact that you see obstacles that you cannot really overcome at this point, probably at some random point you can come back and then you discover that you can go back to a certain area and then discover new things. One game that makes it in a very good way is the game that I mentioned earlier which is Hyper Light Drifter. They just put the player in the middle, and you can take three different ways completely on your own choice. We’re kind of trying to make a combination like that, but also with a few obstacles on the way. Selini is a combination of Hyper Light Drifter and Hollow Night, something in this sense.
How did you decide to implement artificial intelligence with your story?
This is something that also came on the way. And because of the protagonist concepts and because I’m personally a little sensitive about the subject of artificial intelligence coming in our life. I’m skeptical and careful. I believe that’s going to be one of the issues that will be discussed a lot during the next few years. I’m personally very, let’s say, inclined to this subject and it was very natural for me to include it in the game. Also, the artificial intelligence and human relationships in the game can represent the relationship of a child and a parent. How would that work? Like parents artificial intelligence with human children, for example. I find it very intriguing as a concept.
So how long will the game last? How long will it take for us to explore the game? Can you tell us approximately the time?
Well, I know that usually those linear games that I mentioned at the beginning, they start and then end in a couple of hours. But I think that’s not enough for a Metroidvania, in order to fill the whole, you know, to get connected with the world and really get also connected with the characters and the meaning of the game, I think you need at least 10 hours to be there. And by 10 hours I mean 10 hours of a clean gameplay, maybe more for casual gamers.
Does that mean that you’ll be adding more worlds after you release the game? Like in some sort of DLCs or updates? Would you be also adding new levels?
I’m very open to that. However, the ideal thing for me now is to have enough funds from Kickstarter that I can include a few people on the way so that we can release the perfect game from the beginning if possible. We all understand that this is a very challenging promise, and I’m not sure that I can really keep it. For me the idea would be to release the perfect thing that I have in my mind right from the beginning. If I feel that, later, depending also on the critique maybe of the game, that I must enrich this game with more things, I will certainly do it. But the goal is to make a solid game that is better as possible from the release moment. So that’s why I said earlier that, if we need to fix and polish few things, it’s better for me to take a couple of months or maybe even four months or five months to make that, to polish these elements. I don’t really like when games are released and they can be buggy. I feel it’s a lack of respect to the players. I want to avoid that. I want to give a very complete product.
What has been the most challenging aspect of developing this game so far? Can you give us some secrets?
Well, at the beginning when I started, because I came from an artistic background, I was a photographer before, so I had experience at using a lot of software which made it easier for me to get in the game engine. Since you are an artist and you were an artist before, people think it would be easier for you to go and do the artistic stuff, for example, coding would be the most challenging. Weirdly enough, today for me programming and creating systems and developing the game is the easiest part. The most difficult for me is, I think, the narration, because you built a player, you created a player, you create the environments, the player moves around, the player jumps, does a lot of things. It doesn’t mean anything by itself. I think the most difficult part is combining all these elements because you take somebody, and you ask from the person to sit in front of a computer or press buttons with controller and feel things from that. This is very challenging to make. For me narration is the most difficult when you combine all these elements that you have to be able to create a meaningful experience for someone.
What about the graphics of the game?
Also, graphics and generally art is quite challenging. Selini seems kind of minimal because the idea is that you have this fog. If you notice from the demo, there’s always a certain fog and that’s how it’s been. Like you have this fog and you build an entire world on top of it. It’s very important element of the whole visual design because it makes it possible for me, for one person to be able to create the world. The background seems to very complicated, but the objects are mainly just rotated boxes and they give this illusion of being something very complicated because of the fog. The good thing with technical stuff, for example, same thing with coding, is that if you have a problem, you know where to look for it, you know where to look for a solution. It’s there’s a direction for technical problems, but when the problems are more on the narration parts or on the art, general art, this can really depends on what person you are, on the mood of the day, on what music you listen today as it gets challenging to fix those things. It’s very difficult to balance that, especially when you work alone, for example, you can lose it on the way. That’s why I believe that these new people that are coming now from the campaign are very, very helpful in order to stabilize some things.
Did you have to work on fixing many bugs or like polishing the game in general, or did you just manage to do it in one go?
Weirdly enough I managed to do it in one go. I didn’t have many bugs on the demo because I was a photographer, I have this personality called perfectionism, which I thought was a negative thing. I’m afraid to show something if I don’t feel that it’s perfect. And this is something that I really must work on. That made me to create a game completely clean from bugs, but there were very few minor bugs that were discovered from testers that check the game very thoroughly. Generally, the game has no bugs and I found that weird myself because I was expecting when I released the demo to get a list of bugs. But thankfully, it was all fine and so that gave me some confidence.
I would also like to ask you about any new different aspects of the game that you haven’t shown so far, but you’re eager to show us the players in the future.
I think I will try to really avoid that because usually people when they reveal stuff, I don’t think that it’s always for the better. It’s just for them to make a noise around the project in order to get more followers and more copies to sell and things like that. I will try to keep it as in order to, let’s say, reward the player who is eager to discover things by themselves in the game. And hopefully for marketing reasons, I will not have to reveal too much. I don’t know in what way it can happen. Maybe, for example, if a mechanic is catchy or I would make a new trailer for the release, I would probably have to reveal a few more things. But right now, I don’t really have something in mind on what to reveal first and what not. But, as you can understand, it’s impossible that you need to show things in order to create a larger community for your product. I don’t have something solid right now to really to reveal.
What kind of advices would you give to the new developers that are starting and that they’re finding it hard to find themselves in the gaming industry?
First of all, I must say that they should be very careful from whom they get advice because the given advice maybe won’t be for everyone and does not apply for all developers . I had a certain journey in life and this pushed me to take a certain direction, which is very tough. I took a lot of risks. I stopped my job as a photographer in order to fully focus on Selini. And, you know, at the same time I had a child. However, the fact that I had my son is the main force that kept me going. I don’t want to just say you should keep trying and never give up. I want to give example that you shouldn’t give up until you make it. That’s the example that is pushing me forward. If you really love something and it keeps you motivated, you should just go for it. The best thing I can do, for example, I don’t really like the concept of start with something small and gradually you go to something better and then do something even more better. In my experience, it never works. Like in all professions not only in the videogames. When you start with something small, don’t be afraid to go for your biggest dreams. Actually, you give the signal to your brain – I know I cannot do it or I’m not capable of doing it. What I say is just go for your own biggest dream. Just go for it. Don’t really think much of it. What is the game that you would do anyways? For example, you know when you finish, when you leave work and you go on your computer and you play the game that you make, it just feels different. Trust me, if you try to make the game and you are focused and willing to go all the way, the technical knowledge will come on the way and don’t be afraid of It. You can make anything but don’t give up once it gets difficult. I would invest more on the working with knowledge or something technical for example. But again, I had this journey so I can suggest these things. If you think you can make it all the way, then you can follow this advice.
Can we expect more games from you in the future? Do you plan to maybe work on games similar to it or something more different?
I like to experiment and I want to do this. The reason that I started is because it’s, as I said earlier, it’s what I like to do anyway. When I had free time, it’s what I started doing. I will keep doing this no matter what. I think I will try something slightly different in the future. I don’t want to really repeat exactly the same concept or the same project, I just want to experiment with new things every time. So certainly, I will go for a second or third or even more games, but I believe that they will be different.
Are there some games that you’re currently playing besides Selini that you really like?
Right now, I’m playing with my son game called Outer Wilds. We had it on the wishlist for a long time ago and we just decided to play it. This is the one that we’re currently playing. I still love the idea of exploration. I love when the meaning of video games gives you the opportunity to discover things and that’s what I love in video games in general – to discover things.
We can see that you like to explore and that you managed to implement that in your game as well and then maybe some people who like it as well might try it. Thank you for answering all these questions and for spending so much time talking to me and discussing about your game.
English (UK) 
Hrvatski